When only outsiders pay for their education, recruiting outsiders becomes awfully tempting
Two people have written to me with the same critique of the first part of this post.
One writes: "Paul, I’m confused with part of your argument. If Legault and not McGill is getting the extra cash from out of province students, how is McGill incentivized to accept more out of province students?"
The other: "In your analysis you are assuming that McGill, Concordia and Bishop will get to keep the differential fees, as added revenues ... not so. The Government of Quebec will be collecting the “differential” in fees, and redistributing it to the francophone universities. Legault will give them the “grant” but they do not get to keep the differential fees! The incentive to recruit “out of state” students is diminished."
This might indeed kill my argument. It's a big enough critique (and obvious enough; I should have addressed it) that there's no point in not acknowledging it.
But to me the incentive isn't diminished, it's displaced: the university does the recruiting but the government feels the financial impact of in-province vs out-of-province recruiting. Would the province ignore the financial pressure over time, or would it find some mechanism to ensure more out-of-province students are accepted? I still think the US example is relevant.
Thank you for the gift of that video about the old RVH! I worked at the Childrens during that massive move and can't imagine what it was like for the enormous Vic. I still feel sad when I pass the site of the old MCH and at the same time wondered what would happen to that old grey mansion up the mountain. Now I know. How pathetic, shallow, and sly of PSPP to twist the numbers knowing that no one would ever fact-check. Well he's exposed now.
Here’s my idea to put an end to provincial governments treating students from other provinces as cash-cows:
The federal government should amend the equalization formula so that all extra fees collected from from out-of-province students gets clawed back from federal transfers. This would discourage Quebec and all Atlantic provinces from engaging in this downward spiral, which should be enough to put an end to it all.
Don’t ask me for any more details than that I’m just the ideas guy.
Quelle bonne analyse en passant, bravo et merci M. Wells.
Brilliant analysis Paul. And much needed sanity and facts brought into a highly emotional issue which has clearly been torqued by the Premier for maximum political advantage. If enough people read this it might trigger a backlash for him and his government.
All this is very interesting, but universities in Canada might be in for the same financial shock that’s hitting their U-S counterparts now: wealthy alumni donors (primarily Jewish) withdrawing their financial support due to anti-Israel activities on the part of students, student associations, faculty and faculty associations. I recognize that alumni have not played as big a role in Canadian universities, but as a Carleton J-school alumni, I get the begging calls and letters. I have been a donor but as a supporter of Israel and as someone disgusted at the level of anti-semitism now being shown on Canadian campuses, my purse won’t be opened this year.
Paul: On the tuition issue...is there not another, bigger point?
It's my understanding from the initial reporting on this that a significant portion of money raised from out-of-province student tuition is redistributed to French language post-secondary institutions. Is that not correct? If it is correct, I think it makes comparisons with US schools somewhat moot. As far as I'm aware, a hefty portion of the tuition fees to attend University of Michigan are not peeled off and given to Michigan State, are they? And I must say, the argument that out of province students go to Quebec schools, get educated and leave is a little rich. They're anglophones, and the Quebec government has gone out of it's way to pass laws making Anglos second-class citizens in the province. If you can't legally work in your native tongue, why would you stick around after graduation?
Well done Paul but you fail to mention what, to me, seems to be the most important part of the tuition hike story. Legault and his team were not shy in saying they made this move to reduce the amount of English in Montréal. Any financial windfall seems to be coincidental.
Thanks for taking a second kick at the can, Paul. This was most informative, but also worrisome for those who don't want to see post-secondary education become a playground for the well-off and mobile. And not only is it discouraging (but not surprising) to see PSPP play around with numbers, it's worth noting that as Legault was at first saying this measure wasn't aimed at anglophone students, Roberge, the language minister was crowing about fewer out-of-province students polluting the streets of Montreal with English before they took their degrees and went home. The government wants it both ways: to rake in more money from outside Quebec that can be turned over to the francophone university system, but also to reduce the "anglicization" that comes from having too many students from outside Quebec speaking English on the streets of Montreal. (McGill, by the way, tends to get more infrastructure money because it has more old buildings on its campuses than all the other universities put together; it is still never enough, as a short stroll around the downtown campus will reveal).
I feel sorry for the place of my birth. the shrinking population, both anglo and Francophone due to god birth control practices, is making Quebec a real backwater except for Montreal which will lose people if they don't accept what that city is. It's a bilingual outlet to the world and should remain so.
I was the field construction engineer on several of their buildings long ago, like the Leacock building, the women's residence and some other construction projects on campus
Did anyone catch the interview on CBC Radio The House with Dominic Leblanc in which he conceded that tuition is a provincial “competence”? Does not lead to much hope that the federal government and its political leadership will do much about this nefarious and disastrous move by Legault, as it has not done on earlier erosion of minority rights in Quebec. Could it be that allophone/anglophone voters no longer matter to the LPC? Until and unless enough francophone leaders agitate to have this policy reversed, looks very unlikely we will see a policy reversal. And McGill and other universities face a federally-made looming issue in the reduction of international student visas. And yes, Paul you are right to ponder whether other provinces could follow suit.
Thanks for the insight and predictions regarding the future of Canadian tuition. Unfortunately the problem is deeper than it's current implementation. Governments have simply lost the vision of yhe last century to provide all Canadians with affordable education seen to be of long term economic benefit. Increasing bureaucracy in government and institutions of higher education have consumed the needed monies and left such opportunities only available to the rich, no matter their origin. Leadership devoid of the bold corrections required will leave Canada chasing scarce dollars in the inevitable lack of opportunity. The outcome is, unfortunately, all to predictable.
Excellent follow up. Thanks. Especially stats from USA
Again, a very useful corrective to the current coverage of the tuition problem. The only Ontario university built since WWll , Ontario University near Oshawa,seems to have been designed to attract foreign students, especially from the Middle East. When Chrystia Freeland posted a poorly phrased tweet about the treatment of women in Saudi Arabia, the Saudis pulled their student funding, which must have made a big hole in the university’s budget. Apparently the Saudîs discreetly walked back the ban, although it’s hard to find solid reporting on it.
What’s annoying about Legault is what I call the Louisiana Syndrome where a complex and rich culture like Quebec’s is compared to an American state where 150,000 people speak a very local patois. This should not be a culture war issue. I suspect there will be francophone support when McGill students march through the city on Oct 30. Along with Caquiste support of landlords by abolishing lease transfers, this is not going to go down well with young people or Montreal’s many renters.
Bravo. Bien fait! An excellent political analysis adding to the analysis of the issue from last week. It does lead one to be cynical an=bout the motivations. There is of course another beneficiary to increased tuition fees, and they are those who benefit from the interest collected for the bigger loans and consequential debt of students who end up paying for that tuition ... but I digress!
And already, we start to see PSPP is playing Fun With Numbers.
A politician being less than candid with the figures?
Shurely shome mistake!?