My thanks for this. It’s has struck me as odd that a foreign government infringing the constitutional rights of Canadians is waved away by the PM ‘because it didn’t change the result of the election’. Odder still when he tries to - just yesterday - position himself as the defender of our rights. Once again confusing what’s important to him as being the sum total of what’s important to Canada.
Fascinating and terrifying interview. Canada has indeed been naive, and maybe a little ethno-superior (?) in the past, thinking china would be grateful for sharing our superiour know-how. I remember JT telling us angry citizens that open dialogue with Beijing was the solution to freeing the 2 Michael’s. Made me ill at the time. I’m in Montreal and a few years ago I attended a small conference for real estate investors on how to engage with newly rich mainland Chinese arriving to purchase land on our south shore. The presenter was a Chinese Canadian whose apparent goal was to teach us how to kowtow. But it became very obvious to most of us that there was zero respect for Canadians, they were in Quebec to hoover-up land and exploit what they could. As Manthorpe says, this is not about race. We are dealing with a voracious, greedy and morally decrepit government where empathy or “doing what’s right” has no meaning.
One long dog walk today so two Paul Wells podcasts - a very good day. This was very, very interesting. I have shared widely.
I am working on an urban planning project in Richmond, a BC city with a very large immigrant population from China. They are part of the population that avoids engagement with government, and now I better understand why. Thank you.
Thank you for this very informative interview. Jonathan Thorpe is so well placed to be an advisor to government and industry. Lesson one might be how to stop genuflecting in front of China. Lesson two might be how to start diminishing power of United Front which has intruded in such a malign way. Lesson three might be to speak to the House of Commons about how to protect all Canadians. On my wish list? Remove Yuen Pau Woo from the Senate.
This is an interesting interview. I wonder if Elon Musk is a shill for the Chinese government? Presumably they have "stolen" his EV ideas and now are massively gearing up to undermine him with more inexpensive EVs. I would have liked to have heard Manthorpe's perspective of Musk and, for that matter, the Chinese relationship with the US. Surely much of what Manthorpe said about Canada equally applies to the US, or is their sabre-rattling more effective than Canada's approach?
Jonathan Manthorpe gives us the benefit and wisdom of the long view. This kind of information gives me some confidence in evaluating our federal leaders and policies (both in power and in opposition)
His commentary comes from experience.
I remember a charter flight coming into Martin Falls with delegates from China who proceeded to look at the Ring of Fire in northern Ontario. They brought turkeys and Chinese candies to give to the local First Nation community which looked suspiciously like trying to gain favour and some influence. I don't know if the federal government knew about this. As Manthorpe suggests, sometimes people on the ground know more about what is going on than officialdom. I'm sure this knowledge is especially acute for many Canadians of Chinese heritage.
Great interview. So many Canadians could learn the reality of our relationship with China by reading Mr. Manthorpe's book. We have spent a lot of time and taxpayers' money on improving this relationship and it may never have been worse than it is today.
We spent HOW MUCH on teaching Chinese judges and laywers about the rule of law?
Brilliant book - I read the first edition, and now need to read the update. I found myself thinking that Manthorpe could have written a second edition by simply saying, "Told you so..." on one page.
China may be of little importance to Canada trade-wise, but on a global scale there is no doubt that China's importance is paramount. Yes, drop the illusions, cut off trade even, but keep a sharp eye on what China (the CCP) is doing and, for heaven's sake, protect Canadians' rights and property.
A journalist writing about China is not the same as a scholar and expert on China. Some current experts on China who offer alternative perspectives to Jonathan Manthorpe include:
1. Elizabeth Economy: A senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and Council on Foreign Relations, she specializes in Chinese domestic and foreign policy.
2. Ian Johnson: A Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and author who has written extensively on Chinese society, culture, and politics.
3. Bill Bishop: The author of the influential Sinocism newsletter, he provides insightful analysis on Chinese politics, economy, and society.
4. Rana Mitter: A historian and professor of Chinese history at the University of Oxford, known for his expertise on modern Chinese history and contemporary China.
5. Orville Schell: A veteran journalist and China scholar who has written extensively on China's political economy and society.
These experts offer diverse perspectives and insights into various aspects of China's development and influence on the global stage.
I would like some objectivity in the analysis of writing on China.
You claim that a (mere) journalist, is not the same as a "scholar and expert." Then out of a list of five you name three journalists (including an author) and two scholars. Both of those scholars seem to specialize in events and decisions within China - have either of them examined China's external actions?
As Paul noted, it would be helpful to provide some commentary on how their views differ from Manthorpe's.
My thanks for this. It’s has struck me as odd that a foreign government infringing the constitutional rights of Canadians is waved away by the PM ‘because it didn’t change the result of the election’. Odder still when he tries to - just yesterday - position himself as the defender of our rights. Once again confusing what’s important to him as being the sum total of what’s important to Canada.
Brilliant podcast. We have “created an illusion of the importance of the relationship with China.”
Fascinating and terrifying interview. Canada has indeed been naive, and maybe a little ethno-superior (?) in the past, thinking china would be grateful for sharing our superiour know-how. I remember JT telling us angry citizens that open dialogue with Beijing was the solution to freeing the 2 Michael’s. Made me ill at the time. I’m in Montreal and a few years ago I attended a small conference for real estate investors on how to engage with newly rich mainland Chinese arriving to purchase land on our south shore. The presenter was a Chinese Canadian whose apparent goal was to teach us how to kowtow. But it became very obvious to most of us that there was zero respect for Canadians, they were in Quebec to hoover-up land and exploit what they could. As Manthorpe says, this is not about race. We are dealing with a voracious, greedy and morally decrepit government where empathy or “doing what’s right” has no meaning.
One long dog walk today so two Paul Wells podcasts - a very good day. This was very, very interesting. I have shared widely.
I am working on an urban planning project in Richmond, a BC city with a very large immigrant population from China. They are part of the population that avoids engagement with government, and now I better understand why. Thank you.
Thank you for this very informative interview. Jonathan Thorpe is so well placed to be an advisor to government and industry. Lesson one might be how to stop genuflecting in front of China. Lesson two might be how to start diminishing power of United Front which has intruded in such a malign way. Lesson three might be to speak to the House of Commons about how to protect all Canadians. On my wish list? Remove Yuen Pau Woo from the Senate.
Increasing our landfill with electronic junk. Wonder if this was talked about in the plastic waste forum held in ottawa.
This is an interesting interview. I wonder if Elon Musk is a shill for the Chinese government? Presumably they have "stolen" his EV ideas and now are massively gearing up to undermine him with more inexpensive EVs. I would have liked to have heard Manthorpe's perspective of Musk and, for that matter, the Chinese relationship with the US. Surely much of what Manthorpe said about Canada equally applies to the US, or is their sabre-rattling more effective than Canada's approach?
These questions were the subject of a good episode of the New York Times's podcast The Daily: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/09/podcasts/the-daily/tesla-china-ev.html
Noah Smith has a good piece on this as well.
https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/why-china-is-defeating-tesla
Jonathan Manthorpe gives us the benefit and wisdom of the long view. This kind of information gives me some confidence in evaluating our federal leaders and policies (both in power and in opposition)
His commentary comes from experience.
I remember a charter flight coming into Martin Falls with delegates from China who proceeded to look at the Ring of Fire in northern Ontario. They brought turkeys and Chinese candies to give to the local First Nation community which looked suspiciously like trying to gain favour and some influence. I don't know if the federal government knew about this. As Manthorpe suggests, sometimes people on the ground know more about what is going on than officialdom. I'm sure this knowledge is especially acute for many Canadians of Chinese heritage.
Great interview. So many Canadians could learn the reality of our relationship with China by reading Mr. Manthorpe's book. We have spent a lot of time and taxpayers' money on improving this relationship and it may never have been worse than it is today.
We spent HOW MUCH on teaching Chinese judges and laywers about the rule of law?
This is an outstanding interview! The insights and opinions seem well supported by facts covering over fifty years.
Bought the book, thank you. Looking forward to an interview about the next one, too.
Excellent interview!
Brilliant book - I read the first edition, and now need to read the update. I found myself thinking that Manthorpe could have written a second edition by simply saying, "Told you so..." on one page.
Thanks for the interview.
China may be of little importance to Canada trade-wise, but on a global scale there is no doubt that China's importance is paramount. Yes, drop the illusions, cut off trade even, but keep a sharp eye on what China (the CCP) is doing and, for heaven's sake, protect Canadians' rights and property.
A journalist writing about China is not the same as a scholar and expert on China. Some current experts on China who offer alternative perspectives to Jonathan Manthorpe include:
1. Elizabeth Economy: A senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and Council on Foreign Relations, she specializes in Chinese domestic and foreign policy.
2. Ian Johnson: A Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and author who has written extensively on Chinese society, culture, and politics.
3. Bill Bishop: The author of the influential Sinocism newsletter, he provides insightful analysis on Chinese politics, economy, and society.
4. Rana Mitter: A historian and professor of Chinese history at the University of Oxford, known for his expertise on modern Chinese history and contemporary China.
5. Orville Schell: A veteran journalist and China scholar who has written extensively on China's political economy and society.
These experts offer diverse perspectives and insights into various aspects of China's development and influence on the global stage.
I would like some objectivity in the analysis of writing on China.
Quite a list! How would you say these people disagree with something Manthorpe said here?
You claim that a (mere) journalist, is not the same as a "scholar and expert." Then out of a list of five you name three journalists (including an author) and two scholars. Both of those scholars seem to specialize in events and decisions within China - have either of them examined China's external actions?
As Paul noted, it would be helpful to provide some commentary on how their views differ from Manthorpe's.