Whether or not you agree with President Trump, why would anyone think that after the Democrats used the legal system against him during the Biden administration, that President Trump and the Republicans would not do the same thing once they were back in power? I find the pearl clutching from commentators like Ms Applebaum and Mr Frum to be a bit much. There were many people in the know (Ms Applebaum not being one) who tried to warn the West about the situation in Ukraine, and that not only was Ukraine being led down the garden path but that the policies being taken vis-a-vis the relationship between the West and Ukraine were going to provoke Russia. In no way I am excusing the behaviour of President Putin and his acts of aggression; I merely state that the current situation could have been avoided through the type of diplomacy that prevented the Cold War from becoming World War 3. With respect to President Trump (again, I'm no fan) and his corruption, let's not forget President Biden's infirmities, and how the public was deliberately deceived for years. I look forward to a day when President Trump is no longer in office, but IMHO, American democracy is very robust, and will be just fine notwithstanding the current occupant of the Oval Office.
I think you might be interested in my old grad school roomie, Steve Ansolabehere, a Harvard prof who's worked on all kinds of electoral issues. Once it was voter fraud (fake news) and now it's redistricting.
Good to hear you chat with Applebaum. The most important takeaway for me was the point that trust is broken with the USA for a very long time, though some can hope for easier dealings with different administrations. Based on this, we will have to observe current Cdn relations with the USA closely to see how ‘trusting’ they remain. I take Applebaum’s point on sycophantic posture of some European leaders, and hope we never see a similar stance here.
Canada didn't start trusting the U.S. until Brian Mulroney and Ronald Reagan were in power. Certainly Pierre Trudeau did not and just as certainly nor did our last traditionalist PM Diefenbaker. Indeed this trust is in historical terms, new and now going.
It has often been said that if you want to know what the left is really up to, listen to what they accuse conservatives of doing. This interview strikes me as a perfect example of that.
Re that $5 billion, actually, in an August 11 entry on her Substack, Applebaum wrote: “David Kilpatrick at The New Yorker has done an outstanding investigation, estimating that between real estate deals, his media company, financial firms, and primarily cryptocurrency, Trump has made around $3.4 billion from the presidency just five months into his current term.“
Readers may want to check out her Kleptocracy Inc. project at John Hopkins University’s SNF Agora Institute: “The Kleptocracy Tracker is a public log of political decisions that benefit private interests.” In launching the project in April 2025 she wrote: “For the past decade, American government and business alike have slowly begun to adopt the kleptocratic model pioneered by countries such as Russia and China, where the rulers’ conflicts of interest are simply part of the fabric of the system.“
I listen to and read materials from Anne Applebaum and I find her analyses and perspectives very insightful and helpful in understanding what is happening in the US and particularly Europe including Russia and Ukraine. Like a cheating spouse, I think it will take much time for the US to gain back the regard of Canada and much of the world. What particularly caught my attention was her comments about the state of Russia and their ability to control their citizens given their economy. I have this feeling that post-Putin, Russia will go into a major tailspin. At heart I am an optimist and believe humanity will endure, but it’s a rocky road ahead.
Having moved to my laptop I now find the transcript to be almost unreadable. Other podcasts manage to make available readable transcripts for those of us old farts who don't like to wander around with things stuck in our ears, but have enjoyed reading & thinking about what Paul and guests have to say!
Bring back readable (& findable) transcripts, please!!
Why can't I read the transcripts on my phone now? Without getting into the Substack morass. I rarely want to listen to the audio but now have to move to my laptop to read. Most frustrating for a long time subscriber!!
I forced myself to listen to this podcast as Anne Applebaum actually has a pre-journalism life in the academic environment. I don't mean this as a criticism of your now defunct podcasting, but as a criticism of the Republican dinosaurs. My impression of the world ordered established by the U.S. in 1945 is that this world order was not functioning properly. Trump is actually correct that the U.S. was expected to do everything when Europe (and even Canada) did virtually noting except get rich on the American dime. Donald Trump is a reversion to isolationism - I doubt that will work but he is not as 'crazed' as people like Anne Applebaum claim. The Atlantic magazine is the last redoubt of the old Republican party.
I’ve got more time for this point of view than you might think. I think Trump is not “crazed” so much as bone-stupid — sorry! — but he’s a backlash against a lot of stuff, including a sort of John McCain Republicanism that was too fashionable at the time and has grown more fashionable in some circles since. But to me, the immorality of Russia’s attack on Ukraine is absolutely cut and dried, and blackmailing a bunch of TV networks and universities is absolutely cut and dried, and so on.
Listening to her ideas about what Canada should do, it was so nice to be able to think, hey, our PM is several steps ahead down that very path already.
Always appreciate hearing a conversation with Applebaum. The democratic world really needs to heed her advice about strengthening political and economic ties ex-USA. Easier said than done for Canada but no point in spending too much time in the denial stage.
Whether or not you agree with President Trump, why would anyone think that after the Democrats used the legal system against him during the Biden administration, that President Trump and the Republicans would not do the same thing once they were back in power? I find the pearl clutching from commentators like Ms Applebaum and Mr Frum to be a bit much. There were many people in the know (Ms Applebaum not being one) who tried to warn the West about the situation in Ukraine, and that not only was Ukraine being led down the garden path but that the policies being taken vis-a-vis the relationship between the West and Ukraine were going to provoke Russia. In no way I am excusing the behaviour of President Putin and his acts of aggression; I merely state that the current situation could have been avoided through the type of diplomacy that prevented the Cold War from becoming World War 3. With respect to President Trump (again, I'm no fan) and his corruption, let's not forget President Biden's infirmities, and how the public was deliberately deceived for years. I look forward to a day when President Trump is no longer in office, but IMHO, American democracy is very robust, and will be just fine notwithstanding the current occupant of the Oval Office.
I think you might be interested in my old grad school roomie, Steve Ansolabehere, a Harvard prof who's worked on all kinds of electoral issues. Once it was voter fraud (fake news) and now it's redistricting.
Good to hear you chat with Applebaum. The most important takeaway for me was the point that trust is broken with the USA for a very long time, though some can hope for easier dealings with different administrations. Based on this, we will have to observe current Cdn relations with the USA closely to see how ‘trusting’ they remain. I take Applebaum’s point on sycophantic posture of some European leaders, and hope we never see a similar stance here.
Canada didn't start trusting the U.S. until Brian Mulroney and Ronald Reagan were in power. Certainly Pierre Trudeau did not and just as certainly nor did our last traditionalist PM Diefenbaker. Indeed this trust is in historical terms, new and now going.
It has often been said that if you want to know what the left is really up to, listen to what they accuse conservatives of doing. This interview strikes me as a perfect example of that.
I like that! It sounds like thinking without actually requiring that you do any!
Re that $5 billion, actually, in an August 11 entry on her Substack, Applebaum wrote: “David Kilpatrick at The New Yorker has done an outstanding investigation, estimating that between real estate deals, his media company, financial firms, and primarily cryptocurrency, Trump has made around $3.4 billion from the presidency just five months into his current term.“
Readers may want to check out her Kleptocracy Inc. project at John Hopkins University’s SNF Agora Institute: “The Kleptocracy Tracker is a public log of political decisions that benefit private interests.” In launching the project in April 2025 she wrote: “For the past decade, American government and business alike have slowly begun to adopt the kleptocratic model pioneered by countries such as Russia and China, where the rulers’ conflicts of interest are simply part of the fabric of the system.“
I listen to and read materials from Anne Applebaum and I find her analyses and perspectives very insightful and helpful in understanding what is happening in the US and particularly Europe including Russia and Ukraine. Like a cheating spouse, I think it will take much time for the US to gain back the regard of Canada and much of the world. What particularly caught my attention was her comments about the state of Russia and their ability to control their citizens given their economy. I have this feeling that post-Putin, Russia will go into a major tailspin. At heart I am an optimist and believe humanity will endure, but it’s a rocky road ahead.
I find it interesting that Anne A. is married to the deputy prime minister of Poland. Is she an American citizen? I could listen to her for hours!
Sikorski is also the Foreign Minister of Poland. Applebaum is a dual citizen of Poland and the US. Their eldest son is a US Marine.
And yes, listening to Anne is always great. Check out YouTube.
Thanks, Paul, for having Anne on the pod again.
Having moved to my laptop I now find the transcript to be almost unreadable. Other podcasts manage to make available readable transcripts for those of us old farts who don't like to wander around with things stuck in our ears, but have enjoyed reading & thinking about what Paul and guests have to say!
Bring back readable (& findable) transcripts, please!!
Why can't I read the transcripts on my phone now? Without getting into the Substack morass. I rarely want to listen to the audio but now have to move to my laptop to read. Most frustrating for a long time subscriber!!
I forced myself to listen to this podcast as Anne Applebaum actually has a pre-journalism life in the academic environment. I don't mean this as a criticism of your now defunct podcasting, but as a criticism of the Republican dinosaurs. My impression of the world ordered established by the U.S. in 1945 is that this world order was not functioning properly. Trump is actually correct that the U.S. was expected to do everything when Europe (and even Canada) did virtually noting except get rich on the American dime. Donald Trump is a reversion to isolationism - I doubt that will work but he is not as 'crazed' as people like Anne Applebaum claim. The Atlantic magazine is the last redoubt of the old Republican party.
I’ve got more time for this point of view than you might think. I think Trump is not “crazed” so much as bone-stupid — sorry! — but he’s a backlash against a lot of stuff, including a sort of John McCain Republicanism that was too fashionable at the time and has grown more fashionable in some circles since. But to me, the immorality of Russia’s attack on Ukraine is absolutely cut and dried, and blackmailing a bunch of TV networks and universities is absolutely cut and dried, and so on.
Listening to her ideas about what Canada should do, it was so nice to be able to think, hey, our PM is several steps ahead down that very path already.
Always appreciate hearing a conversation with Applebaum. The democratic world really needs to heed her advice about strengthening political and economic ties ex-USA. Easier said than done for Canada but no point in spending too much time in the denial stage.